How to increase the WIFI signal in the house (flat)

[professor]

That’s one of my pet peeves, if everyone who can, uses 5Ghz then it improves WiFi congestion for everyone as it naturally doesn’t penetrate walls as much as 2.4Ghz, so you’d be causing less of an issue for your neighbours and they for you. 2.4Ghz only has 3 non overlapping bands so it only takes 4 2.4Ghz routers near each other to cause degraded performance. If you use a WiFi repeater then you’re using 2 of the 3 non overlapping bands yourself.

There is little you can do at the device to force 5Ghz preference, but you can usually make a different SSID for 5ghz and only connect that at the device, and preserve 2.4ghz for legacy devices.

5ghz is worse for walls, it needs Powerline or Ethernet, to a 5ghz access point.

Because each device takes a channel the decision tree is:

1. use Ethernet if possible, usually to older laptops, you can also get USB to Ethernet adapters.
2. if a long Ethernet is not viable then use Powerline with then a short Ethernet cable.
3. if device cannot use Ethernet, or it’s not viable, at the end of the Ethernet/Powerline use a WiFi access point
4. use 5Ghz WiFi as it naturally degrades at walls to keep the signal to the boundary of your rooms.
5. 2.4Ghz as last resort for devices which cannot use Ethernet or 5Ghz WiFi.

[Fuu_bar]

This is exactly why I have a guest network as well as my main network, because I can set it to 5ghz specifically for devices that are within range of it on my main floor, e.g. my fridge, range, t.v., nest, nest protects, and cameras. I use my main to go on my devices like laptops, ipad, etc as they are located all over the house and being that we have plaster walls, this allows them to connect seamlessly without the need for an additional mesh or repeater.

Being what it is, I had to make sure that I was able to change my SSID to something that could be recognized by said devices, and thankfully I was able to use this:

Main network

Guest network

[Chiquinho]

Now I got you.
Yes this can be done.
Setting another access point via cable,

Of course 5ghz should be used if possible, to avoid overlaps with other
routers using 2,4ghz .

Another thing can be done.
Checking the routers in the neighbourhood and select a channel which is not used by those, (eg 13)
Does this really help?

[professor]

… ideally another Wifi Access Point (same SSID, same password but not the same channel) on end of a sufficiently long Ethernet cable, or if not practical then Powerline + Wifi. Then the device can move around and seamlessly switch to strongest signal.

Get Cat5e even if not GigE, it’s better quality, and can go up to 100ft.

If you have to use the Powerline method, you can buy integrated Powerline+Wifi for neatness but the cheapest is use an existing older router and configure it to Access Point non-router mode, on end of either long Ethernet from router or short Ethernet from Powerline.

[Satoru]

Realistically there arent a lot of great ways to do this other than spamming repeaters everywhere

Powerline ‘might’ work but thats really really dependent on your wiring. Plus its very succeptable to noise on the line. Aka if you turn on a high amp device on the same circuit the bandwdith available tanks.

Wired is the best way to connect your mesh network together but again, that may not be possible depending.

Amazon.com: 2 Pack - DIRECTV Broadband Deca Ethernet to Coax Adapter - Third...

If you have coax avaialble AND you’re NOT splitting the coax, doing IP over coax ‘might’ work. Its not fast but its going to be more stable

There’s not a lot you can do to get through concrete walls

[professor]

I have been using Powerline for 14 years.

You normally have a “ring” for kitchen sockets and a “ring” for bedrooms, connect the Powerline pair to the same non-kitchen ring. The newest models are more reliable than Wifi.

There’s not a lot you can do to get through concrete walls

You can focus the radio signal to point to where is it needed.

[TechnicallyWell]

Thanks for posting this! I’ve been thinking about using my house’s existing, unused coax cable for Ethernet, but didn’t know about these low cost adapters!

[Chiquinho]

Oh, I have such an unused coax system in my house (old TV)
and sockets in quite every room.
That’s an idea.

[professor]

Checking the routers in the neighbourhood and select a channel which is not used by those, (eg 13)
Does this really help?

Ideally you sit down with neighbours and agree a win-win method. Most routers are on auto-channel moving away from another router on overlapping channel, so if you were to look one minute it might be on, say, channel 13, if you set to channel 6, it could then put itself on 6 to react to some (further from you, nearer to them) router. So if you did decide to fix a static channel you’d want your nearest neighbours to do the same on the non-overlapping channel. You want one to be 1, another on 6, another on 11.

If all those who could use 5Ghz did, or all those who can use Ethernet did, then it helps share the spectrum. 5Ghz is not just avoid selfishly moving to less congestion, it also altruistically reduces your impact on others as 5Ghz does not penetrate neighbour’s property as well as 2.4Ghz.

Below higher numbers = bigger loss = worse.

In the top-of-thread problem described, 5Ghz is not the answer by itself as it is worse through concrete (higher = worse in chart below)

But if you did go a wired+wireless, so Ethernet / Powerline / Coax + Wifi , then WANT to 5Ghz so that added radio used in the other room does not bleed out so much so it helps neighbours. So wired to get around concrete and 5Ghz within a room.

[Chiquinho]

This will work here.
(separate houses)

(The 13 its me)

But in a an apartment block?

But let me say first!
Thank you.
I learned a lot today!

[professor]

The 5 and the 9 neighbours are worsening things for everyone else. The 9 is worsening for you. This charts show the overlapping, you need separation of 5 channels, so 1, 6, 11

From your scan, you being on 13 is overlapping 9 which is a stronger signal so you’d be better on 1. But the people who manually picked 5 is going to still give you some degradation than if they had picked 6.

Planning, you sit with neighbours and make a physical map and agree minimum overlapping based on physical location. e.g.

If you cannot plan this with your neighbours, then simply move to 5Ghz, along with using cable whereever you can to reduce your congestion with yourself and your neighbours, who will themselves be going to 5Ghz probably eventually.

You can win-win with neighbours, because if you are close to each other, you can share Internet costs and lower individual costs. So there’s money savings to be made in the situations of high congestion. If you put 5Ghz access points in each apartment with Ethernet between them, you’d want the one in the middle of 3 apartments to have the Internet and you share the bill. The cost savings pay for the hardware.

Chances are you each right now is paying the Internet company for faster Internet than your Wifi can deliver.

[Chiquinho]

Yes I will ask my neighbors (Michael and Arnim) both are engineers,
who understand it.
Their houses are about 10m away left and right side of mine.
In front there is the street only and back the garden.

The conference of Yalta!

5ghz : I would have problems with my old hardware.

[professor]

The legacy hardware which cannot move to 5Ghz will be improved by not sharing the spectrum with those devices you did move to 5Ghz. My advice is change router defaults of 5Ghz + 2.4Ghz from identical SSID as then you cannot force a 5Ghz capable device from using 5Ghz. Go into router and rename the 5Ghz (e.g. add “-5G”) and then set all 5Ghz capable devices to only know the password of the -5G SSID. If all people do that then the 2.4Ghz spectrum will improve with less congestion.

Legacy devices also more commonly have Ethernet, so some Ethernet / Powerline helps there too.

So if you can get along with an trust each other then you will pay for the best Internet, and you’d have the 5Ghz / 2.4Ghz router, you’d then have a Long Ethernet from your router to Michael and another long Ethernet to Arnim. They’d then plug in 5Ghz / 2.4Ghz Access Points (non-routing) , then you’d statically fix your 5Ghz 2.4Ghz to be non-overlapping. You’d set the same 5Ghz SSID+Password and a (different password, different SSID) 2.4Ghz SSID+Password. You’d then type in 5Ghz password to all devices which can, and 2.4Ghz for non-5Ghz legacy.

You’d then have a designed lower cost faster Internet.

You can get paid for your Internet bill in beer?

[ikari04warrior]

Very informative thread

[paulstevenewing]

Great conversation guys.
I know a little about channel changing but this has helped a lot.
I added a pair of wi-fi access points to my router last year and switched the WiFi off on the router.
The access points made a huge difference to speed stability and coverage, and even better I was able to hardwire them to the router.
If all devices are within range of both access points it will push 5ghz compatible devices over one access point leaving the other to deal with 2.4ghz devices - such as smart switches etc.
They also look smart which kept Debs happy!

[professor]

It is not perfectly clear to me what you exactly did but if I interpret correctly you have one AP 5ghz and one AP 2.4Ghz? The issue with that is you increase average distance to the AP.

If so then you’ll actually get better coverage if you made both APs do both 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz. Make 5Ghz different SSID to 2.4Ghz. Use the same 5Ghz password on both APs, and use the same 2.4Ghz password on both APs.

Place the two APs at distance from each other roughly dividing your area into 1/4ths. e.g if property 20ft wide then place at ft 5 and 15.

Then add password for only 5Ghz to all 5Ghz devices. I wish there was a way to say pick 5Ghz unless its too weak but I not found a way.

What this does is shorten the average distance to an AP. As your device will pick the nearest. Signal strength degrades to square of distance so in the above example you’re never more than 5ft from an AP, with average 2.5ft, vs if you placed AP together central your average is 5ft, so 1/4th the signal strength.

Make both APs on both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz all auto so they’ll pick the least overlapping of each other and your neighbours.

There is no advantage of turning Wifi off on router, if you enabled it then you’d place the APs at little nearer the edge of property. Then auto channel would have each pick of the 3 non-overlapping.

[paulstevenewing]

Hey @professor
They are funny little devices and look after themselves.
There is a 5 and 2.4 setting, just on/off for the pair.
So both will do whatever it sees fit depending on what devices are closer, 5, 2.4 or a mix.
But if they see a 5ghz compatible device its allows it to connect as that. If enough 5ghz devices are closer to one access point and the other 2.4ghz devices will happily run off the other it seems to push all 5ghz devices to one access point and all 2.4ghz devices to the other.
So tonight we have a busy house so the main access point is communicating with 2.4 and 5ghz devices under the same SSID and password and also seamlessly roaming between the two if I wander around the house.

So this is my main access point tonight,

The iPad is connected to the access point on 5ghz with other devices working on 2.4 but I didn’t have to select 5ghz on my iPad, the access points look after that.

I not sure if that complicates thing more, answers your question or not

But what I do know is I now get more stable WiFi and better speeds and they were simple for my little brain to configure.

[Nhi]

Using repeaters was a solution.

What is a repeater?

And the names of the router get far out

LMAO!!! Love the names of the networks. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Nhi]

Ok, a bit off topic but does anyone use VPN? Pros & Cons? Which do you use? I’ve tried Ghost? I keep seeing the ad for FastestVPN though. Thanks for any replies.

[professor]

A repeater picks up the Wifi signal on the transmitting frequency and rebroadcasts it on a different frequency.

As radio strength drops to the square of distance, a repeater improves the signal at furthest corners, so now your distance was halved (to the repeater instead to router) so your signal is 4 times stronger.

The reason why I said Ethernet or Powerline is better is a repeater cannot overcome the fact that at the repeater it is slower than an Ethernet at that same location.

Pros/cons, repeater is mostly buy and forget, Ethernet is faster but you have wires.

You can make a repeater out of an old router so can be made free.